Amr Khaled:

Isn’t it strange for you to select such a topic for your Ph.D. thesis, especially since you did it in France?

Dr. Zakariya:

Things were a bit difficult indeed, but it was the first Ph.D. of its kind in France to tackle such a topic, and everybody actually wanted to understand about that controversial issue.

Amr Khaled:

Was your intention to introduce the concept of martyrdom in Islam to them?

Dr. Zakariya:

Yes. I did not want anyone to approach an Islamic concept such as this from a personal misconception.

Amr Khaled:

You thus initiated some kind of coexistence.  The Europeans wanted to understand us and we wanted to introduce ourselves to them.  Hence, you selected this topic for your Ph.D. thesis, even though it was hard to be accepted in Europe. 

Please tell us about the two institutes which you established in France, for they are wonderful examples of coexistence.

Dr. Zakariya:

The first is an e-institute (via the Internet).  It introduces Islam in many European languages to non-Muslims, who might be somehow uncomfortable with the idea of studying Islam in public.  The other one is rather a big institution that runs many projects, one of which is a research center that is concerned with the Western culture.  Muslims, including Islamic scholars, need to understand the modern Western culture of today, and not the outdated Western culture which prevailed during colonization periods.

Amr Khaled:

Those are wonderful examples of coexistence.  Your two institutes simply call Westerns to understand more about Islam, and Muslims to understand more about the Western culture. 

Now, Let us begin our talk about Imam Malik.  Why does the Maliki juristic school of thought prevail in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Mauritania?

Dr. Zakariya:

It all started when the Moors, who were and still are famous for their love for the Prophet (SAWS), traveled to Makkah for performing Hajj[6] and Umrah[7].   On their way back home, they used to rest for a while in Madinah and attend Imam Malik’s lectures.  Consequently, they taught their people back home what they had learned from Imam Malik.

Amr Khaled:

What makes ordinary Muslims attached to Imam Malik?

Dr. Zakaryia:

Imam Malik used to love and honor the Prophet (SAWS) so much that he used to go perform ablution and dress up if he was going to narrate one of the Prophet’s (SAWS) ahadith[8].  Moreover, he used to differentiate thoroughly between the ahadith and his personal opinions in juristic or social issues.  His love for the Prophet (SAWS) was based on real knowledge.

Amr Khaled:

Why did the juristic schools of thought of the four Imams in particular survive until now, although there were other Imams at their time who were even more knowledgeable?

Dr. Zakariya:

1.                     The four Imams had many disciples who learned from them and then transferred the Imams’ knowledge to the following generations and, thus, preserved this valuable heritage. 

2.                     They never had extreme opinions.  The moderation and flexibility of their juristic opinions made people love and accept them. 

3.                     They devoted themselves to teaching people and did not involve themselves in any clashes with the authorities.  However, they did not act passively; they used to try their best in changing whatever was wrong, but in a very peaceful and wise manner.  Therefore, they were considered as having leading personalities.  They managed to coexist without abandoning their own opinions or facing the authorities violently. 

Amr Khaled:

What is the most distinctive feature of the Maliki juristic school of thought?

Dr. Zakariya:

Imam Malik preferred to concentrate on practical issues.  He used to believe that thinking about situations which did not happen to be a waste of time and thought.  This can be clearly sensed in his book “Al-Mowatta'”, the first juristic book to be written in Islam and in which Imam Malik included the bases of juristic methodology.

Amr Khaled:

Would you please tell us about the issue of Imam Malik and the people of Madinah?

Dr. Zakariya:

Madinah included the greatest number of the Companions (RA)[9] of the Prophet (SAWS).  Therefore, Imam Malik was convinced that the people of Madinah, especially the great scholars who lived during the time of the Companions (RA), were a perfect link to the prophetic teachings.  He was convinced that whatever they did was probably an imitation of what the Prophet (SAWS) used to do.  Therefore, he preferred to adhere to the valuable knowledge of those great Madinan scholars.  However, he did not reject the knowledge of the other scholars.  Neither did he reject people’s common customs and traditions, as long as they did not contradict with the Islamic law.  

Amr Khaled:

Now let us link this to coexistence, and please correct whatever you see is wrong.  Imam Malik practically accepts and appreciates whatever happens in everyday life among people as long as it is not forbidden in Islam.  If we apply this to something like Mother's Day, which is specified by non-Islamic societies, we shall find that he will accept that Muslims celebrate this day as well, although it is not a religious occasion, as long as nothing happens during it that stands in contradiction with the Islamic teachings. 

Dr. Zakariya:

Yes, that’s right. Especially since Islam urges us to appreciate and honor mothers.  Therefore, nothing is wrong with celebrating this day as long as we do not deem it as a religious occasion or do forbidden things as you have just said. 

Malik's popularity stemmed from his awareness of the needs of the society.  These needs sometimes urged him to give up his own opinions about certain cases for the sake of the society, as long as they conformed to Islam.  For example, the Maliki scholars in Andalusia differed with Imam Malik's opinion which forbids the planting of trees and flowers inside mosques.  They preferred the opinion of Imam al-Awza'y because their environment favored flowers and trees; it was part of their culture and tradition, which does not contradict with the Islamic law. 

Amr Khaled:

Can you give us more examples of Imam Malik's dedication to facilitate things for people?

Dr. Zakariya:

Most homes in Europe nurture dogs.  What would a Muslim living there do when a dog licks him?  Malik's opinion in this respect makes things much easier for a Muslim in such situation.  It permits him to perform his prayer without having to change his clothes or wash them.  Malik's opinion is that dogs are not dirty.  Imam Malik believed that when Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) advised us to wash any plate seven times if licked by a dog, he (SAWS) was stressing on the number of times, not the dirt itself.  According to Imam Malik, if the whole issue was about the dirt, washing it once would be enough.  It is noteworthy that one of the Maliki scholars had a dog although Imam Malik himself did not favor having dogs inside houses.  This Maliki scholar’s opinion was that if Imam Malik lived in his age, he would keep a lion for security precautions, not just a dog, as there were many thieves then.

Amr Khaled:

This means that we should not dispute about different juristic opinions.  We have to respect and accept differences in opinions and coexist peacefully.

Dr. Zakariya:

One of the Tunisian Maliki scholars, well-known for juristic deduction, said that the more knowledgeable a person is, the less rejecting he becomes. 

Amr Khaled:

Would you please tell us about the people of Madinah and the musical instruments, for this is a controversial issue?

Dr. Zakariya:

The people of Madinah saw nothing sinful in singing or playing musical instruments. There is no direct ayah[10] in the Qur’an or an authentic hadith that forbids singing or playing music.  The forbidden singing is only that contains indecent words, especially when it is accompanied by other enticing things. 

Amr Khaled:

Is it a must that each Muslim adopts one of the four Imams’ juristic schools of thought?

Dr. Zakariya:

Of course not.  If a Muslim has a question then he must ask an Islamic scholar who is known for his knowledge, sincerity and adherence to Islamic law, regardless of the juristic school of thought to which this scholar belongs. 

Amr Khaled:

There is a very good and simple juristic book entitled “Fiqh as-Sunnah” which most Muslims usually consult.  What do you think of that book?

Amr Khaled:

This book was a brilliant endeavor at a time when juristic references were very sophisticated, which led people to relinquish religion.  It was presented in a simple way to non-specialists, introducing the opinions of the four Imams regarding every juristic issue.  However, non-scholars should not depend on it to issue a formal opinion or fatwa[11]. 

Acquiring juristic knowledge should not be confined to a certain book or reference, as there are many ahadith and ayahs (Qur’anic verses) that should be looked up and studied in connection before making any conclusions.  For example, there is a hadith that informs us that a dead person is tortured by his family’s weeping and screaming at his death.  Meanwhile, there is a verse where Allah says what can be translated as, “..no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another.” (TMQ, 17:15)[12].  Only specialists in juristic studies can conform between this hadith and the verse; and they have concluded that the dead person referred to in the hadith is he who asks his family to behave in such a way after his death. 

A wise man said, “Knowledge (or science) moves from the scholars’ (or the scientists’) minds to books; meanwhile, its key (to understanding) remains in their minds.  He who applies this knowledge without consulting these scholars, shall indeed err and be lost”.   

Amr Khaled:

To wrap up this episode, we have learned two main things about Imam Malik today:

 1- He did not reject people’s common customs and traditions as long as they were not directly forbidden in the Islamic law, and this is what we call true coexistence. 

2-     He was keen on people’s best interests, which made him very popular.

In this Episode, we have also learned about Professor Zakariya Seddiqi’s two institutes, which are fine contemporary examples of coexistence. 

Finally, we thank Dr. Zakariya for being with us today. 

In the next episode, we will begin to learn another great man; Imam ash-Shafi’y. 

Peace, Mercy and Blessings of Allah be upon you.